IRENAEUS AND AN INTERESTING VARIANT OF COL 1:15
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): "...Jesus Christ was appointed the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, as being THE FIRST-BEGOTTEN ( IN ) ALL THE CREATION; the Son of God being made the Son of man, that through Him we may receive the adoption..." — (Against Heresies, Book 3, chapter 16; ANF edited by Roberts & Donaldson)
Irenaeus was no doubt paraphrasing his understanding of the phrase found at Colosians 1:15, Gk., ( πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως ) "First (one) to be born ( of ) all creation."
But he put a different slant on it.
He was to him the first one to be born "IN" all the creation.
Making him a definite part of "THE CREATION"
At present I do not have the Latin text for this section, but when I do I will post it here.
Elsewhere he speaks of the word as part of the creation and being created by the Lord ( JEHOVAH ) who is the Father and Supreme God of all to Irenaeus.
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 10. "...Now this God is glorified by His Word who is His Son continually, and by the Holy Spirit who is the Wisdom of the Father of all: and the powers of these, namely of the Word and Wisdom, which are called Cherubim and Seraphim, with unceasing voices glorify God; and EVERY CREATED THING that is in the heavens offers glory to God the Father of all. He by His Word has created the whole world, and in the world are the angels; and to all the world He has given laws wherein each several thing should abide, and according to that which is determined by God should not pass their bounds, each fulfilling his appointed task..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
Here "EVERY CREATED THING" gives glory to "God the Father of all".
"GOD" is also a seperate identity from the Word who is "HIS" Son in the first part of the verse.
NOTE: "...Now this God is glorified by His Word who is His Son..."
The Son "glorifie[s]" - "THIS GOD".
Philippians 2:11: “...And every tongue acclaim Jesus Christ as Master, ( to ) the glory of God the Father...” - THE AUTHENTIC NEW TESTAMENT by Hugh J. Schonfield, 1955.
Philippians 2:11: "...and Every Tounge confess That Jesus Christ is Lord, ( for ) the Glory of God the Father..." - Phil 2:11; The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson.
It is hard to escape that he is also part of the "creation" as shown in the previous quotation.
But it is certainly more concrete in the next quotation:
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 50. "...But in a very fitting manner, Christ says by David that the Father speaks with him. And He properly says other things of Himself by the prophets. Amoung other things by Isaiah he speaks thus: "And now thus says the Lord, WHO CREATED ME HIS SERVANT from the womb to gather Jacob and to gather Israel unto him and I will be glorified before the Lord and MY GOD shall be my strength. And He said: 'It will be a great thing for thee to be called MY SERVANT, to raise up and establish the race of Jacob and to return the dispertion of Israel. I have given thee for a light to the Gentiles that thou mayist be salvation unto the ends of the earth'. 51. For here first of all, it is evident that the Son of God was PRE-EXISTANT in that the Father speaks with him and in that before his birth he appeared to men. And that GOD HIMSELF CREATES HIM from the womb means that he must, he born (of) spirit of God and that he is Lord of all men and Saviour of believers whether Jews or others. For the people of the Jews is called Israel in the Hebrew language for their father Jacob was called Israel first, and 'nations' is a name for all men. And the Son calls himself the 'SERVANT' OF THE FATHER, BECAUSE OF HIS OBEDIENCE TO THE FATHER, for among men also every son is the servant of his father. 52. Thus the scriptures make it plain that the Son of God who was before all worlds was Christ who is with the Father is also very near man and intimate and united with him and king of all, BECAUSE THE FATHER HAS BROUGHT ALL IN OBEDIENCE TO HIM and that he is the Saviour of all who believe in him..." - (S. IRENAEUS - [Εἰς ἐπίδειξιν τοῦ ἀποστολικοῦ κηρύγματος] THE PROOF OF APOSTOLIC PREACHING WITH SEVEN FRAGMENTS ARMENIAN VERSION EDITED AND TRANSLATED BY HIS LORDSHIP THE BISHOP KARAPET TER MEKERTTSCHIAN AND THE REV. DR. S. G. WILSON WITH THE CO-OPERATION OF H. R. H. PRINCE MAXE OF SAXONY D. D. AND D. C. L.)
This version above is translated directly from the Armenian by an Armenian and therefore is more accurate and has more weight. Whereas the version below is taken from a Latin translation of the Armenian.
Notice the comments of one translator of the Latin version:
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 50. "...So then right fitly Christ says through David that He converses with the Father; and right worthily does He say the other things concerning Himself through the prophets; as in other instances, so also after this manner by Isaiah: [Latin text: "Et hodie ita dicit Dominus, qui plasmavit me servum suum ab utero"] And now thus saith the Lord, who FORMED ME AS HIS SERVANT from the womb, to gather Jacob and to gather Israel unto him: and I shall be glorified before THE LORD, [Latin text: "et Deus meus"] AND MY GOD shall be a strength unto me. And he said; A great thing shall it be to thee to be called MY SERVANT, to stablish and confirm the tribe of Jacob, and to turn again the dispersion of Israel: and I have set thee for a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldst be for salvation unto the end of the earth. 51. Here, first of all, is seen that the Son of God pre-existed, from the fact that the Father spake with Him, and before He was born revealed Him to men: and, next, that He must needs be born a man among men; and that THE SAME GOD FORMS HIM FROM THE WOMB, that is, that ( of ) the Spirit of God He should be born; and that He is Lord of all men, and Saviour of them that believe on Him, both Jews and others. For the people of the Jews is called Israel in the Hebrew language, from Jacob their father, who was the first to be called Israel: and Gentiles He calls the whole of mankind. And that the Son of the Father CALLS HIMSELF SERVANT (THIS IS) ON ACCOUNT OF HIS SUBJECTION TO THE FATHER: for among men also every son is the servant of his father. 52. That Christ, then, being Son of God before all the world, is with the Father; and being with the Father is also nigh and close and joined unto mankind; and is King of all, because THE FATHER HAS SUBJECTED ALL THINGS UNTO HIM; and Saviour of them that believe on Him----such things do the Scriptures declare..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
Irenaeus says directly "GOD HIMSELF CREATES HIM".
Yes Jesus is "CREATED" or "FORMED" by the Lord ( JEHOVAH ).
How can we say that Ireaneaus used "JEHOVAH"?
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): "...uttered the word IAO (JEHOVAH); from which THE HOLY NAME, JEHOVAH, they say, had its origin..." — (Against Heresies, Book 1, chapter 4:1; A Library of Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church anterior to the division of east and west translated by Members of the English Church; The Five Books of S. Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons translated by the Rev. John Keble, M. A. 1872)
Also others from near and in this time period knew of and mentioned the divine name:
JUSTIN MARTYR (c 160 C.E.): “...And your most renowned historian Diodorus, who employed thirty whole years in epitomizing the libraries, and who, as he himself wrote, travelled over both Asia and Europe for the sake of great accuracy, and thus became an eye-witness of very many things, wrote forty entire books of his own history. And he in the first book, having said that he had learned from the Egyptian priests that Moses was an ancient lawgiver, and even the first, wrote of him in these very words: “For subsequent to the ancient manner of living in Egypt which gods and heroes are fabled to have regulated, they say that Moses first persuaded the people to use written laws, and to live by them; and he is recorded to have been a man both great of soul and of great faculty in social matters.” Then, having proceeded a little further, and wishing to mention the ancient lawgivers, he mentions Moses first. For he spoke in these words: “Among the Jews they say that Moses ascribed his laws to THAT GOD WHO IS CALLED JEHOVAH, whether because they judged it a marvellous and quite divine conception which promised to benefit a multitude of men..." - (Justins Horatory Address to the Greeks Chapter 9. ANF R&D.)
http://www.logoslibrary.org/clement/fragments/1109.html
CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (153-217): “...That mystic name which is called the Tetragrammaton, by which alone they who had access to the Holy of Holies were protected, is pronounced JEHOVAH (Iehovah), which means, Who is, and who shall be..." - NICETAS, Bishop of Heraclea, Quoting CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA, From The Catena On The Pentateuch, Published In Latin By Francis Zephyrus, P 146
Also in the same text just a few words later the Son of God himself calls his Father "MY GOD" Ltn., (Deus meus).
And a little further down it speaks of "THAT SAME GOD" forming or creating him.
Verification of his being created is found elsewhere in Irenaeus:
LATIN TEXT: 20, 3. "...Et quoniam Verbum, hoe est Filius, semper cum Patre erat, per multa demonstravimus. Quoniam autem et Sapientia, quae est Spiritus, erat apud eum ante omnem constitutionem, per Salomonem ait : Deus sapientia fundauit terram, parauit autem caetum prudentia; sensu ejus abyssi eruperunt, nubes autem manaueruni rosa. Et rursus : DOMINUS CREAVIL ME prinicipium uiarum suarum in opera sua, ante saecula fundauit me, in initio anlequam terram facerel, priusquam abyssos constitueret, priusquam procederent fontes aquarum, antequam monles confirmarentur: ante omnes autem colles genuit meb. Et iterum : Cum pararel caetum, eram cum illo, el cum fcrmos faceret fontes abyssi, quando fortia faciebat fundamenta terrae, eram apud cum aptans. Ego eram cui adgaudebat, quotidie autem laetabar ante faciem ejus in omni tempore, cum laelarelur orbe perfecto et jucundabatur in filiis hominume..." — (Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 20:3.)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 3. "...I have also largely demonstrated, that the Word, namely the Son, was always with the Father; and that Wisdom also, which is the Spirit, was present with Him, anterior to all creation, He declares by Solomon: “God by Wisdom founded the earth, and by understanding hath He established the heaven. By His knowledge the depths burst forth, and the clouds dropped down the dew.” And again: [Latin: Dominus creavil me ] “THE LORD CREATED ME the beginning of His ways in His work: He set me up from everlasting, in the beginning, before He made the earth, before He established the depths, and before the fountains of waters gushed forth; before the mountains were made strong, and before all the hills, He brought me forth.” And again: “When He prepared the heaven, I was with Him, and when He established the fountains of the deep; when He made the foundations of the earth strong, I was with Him preparing [them]. I was He in whom He rejoiced, and throughout all time I was daily glad before His face, when He rejoiced at the completion of the world, and was delighted in the sons of men.” 4. There is therefore one God, who by the Word and Wisdom created and arranged all things..." — (Against Heresies, Book 4, chapter 20:3,4. ANF R&D)
There are contridictory notions in this section. Whenever I come acfcross this my suspicion is always aroused of tampering with the text or miss-translation.
[Will finish examining this later]
It is also confirmed by his words here:
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): "...spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit; but we, inasmuch as we are inferior to, and LATER IN EXISTENCE THAN THE WORD OF GOD and His Spirit, are on that very account destitute of the knowledge of His mysteries..." — (Against Heresies, Book 2, chapter 28; ANF R&D)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): "...If any one, therefore, says to us, “How then was THE SON PRODUCED BY THE FATHER?” we reply to him, that no man understands THAT PRODUCTION, OR GENERATION, or calling, or revelation, or by whatever name one may describe His GENERATION, which is in fact altogether indescribable. Neither Valentinus, nor Marcion, nor Saturninus, nor Basilides, nor angels, nor archangels, nor principalities, nor powers , but the Father only who BEGAT, and the Son who WAS BEGOTTEN. ... what all understand to the ONLY-BEGOTTEN Word of God; and while they style Him unspeakable and unnameable, they nevertheless set forth THE PRODUCTION AND FORMATION OF HIS FIRST GENERATION, as if they themselves had assisted AT HIS BIRTH, thus assimilating Him to the word of mankind formed by emissions..." — (Against Heresies, Book 2, chapter 28:6; ANF R&D)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 70. "...For he who bore all these has a GENERATION which cannot be told, for his GENERATION is (as) his (ORIGIN) namely his Father indescribable and unspeakable. But know that he who endured such sufferings had such an (ORIGIN) and do not dispise him on account of his sufferings he endured for you, for a purpose, but fear him for his (ORIGIN)..." - (S. IRENAEUS - [Εἰς ἐπίδειξιν τοῦ ἀποστολικοῦ κηρύγματος] THE PROOF OF APOSTOLIC PREACHING WITH SEVEN FRAGMENTS ARMENIAN VERSION EDITED AND TRANSLATED BY HIS LORDSHIP THE BISHOP KARAPET TER MEKERTTSCHIAN AND THE REV. DR. S. G. WILSON WITH THE CO-OPERATION OF H. R. H. PRINCE MAXE OF SAXONY D. D. AND D. C. L.)
He is "LATER IN EXISTENCE" meaning he wasn't always in existence. And just as we came into existence or were created so was the Word.
He was "PRODUCED BY THE FATHER".
He was a "PRODUCTION".
He had "FIRST" and no doubt second generation when he came into existence John 1:14 as a man.
He had an "ORIGIN".
He was "GENERATED".
When did all this occur?
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 30. "...Hither were the prophets sent by God through the Holy Spirit; and they instructed the people and turned them to the God of their fathers, the Almighty; and they became heralds of the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God, declaring that from the posterity of David His flesh should blossom forth; that after the flesh He might be the son of David, who was the son of Abraham by a long succession; but according to the spirit Son of God, PRE-EXISTING with the Father, BEGOTTEN BEFORE ALL THE CREATION OF THE WORLD, and at the end of the times appearing to all the world as man, the Word of God gathering up in Himself all things that are in heaven and that are on earth..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 43. "...So then we must believe God in all things, for in all things God is true. Now that there was a Son of God, and that He existed not only before He appeared in the world, but also BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE, Moses, who was the first that prophesied, says in Hebrew: Baresith bara Elowin basan benuam samenthares. And this, translated into our language, is: "The Son in the beginning: God established then the heaven and the earth." [166] This Jeremiah the prophet also testified, saying thus: Before the morning-star I BEGAT THEE: and before the sun (is) thy name; and that is, BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD; for together with the world the stars were made. And again the same says: Blessed is he who was, before he became man: Because, for God, the Son was (as) the beginning BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD; [SEE FOOTNOTE 169] but for us (He was) then, when He appeared; and before that He was not for us, who knew Him not. Wherefore also His disciple John, in teaching us who is the Son of God, who was with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE, and that all the things that were made were made [John 1:3 (dia) "THROUGH HIM" is more corect] by Him, says thus: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made [John 1:3 (dia) "THROUGH HIM" is more corect] by Him, and without Him was not anything made: showing with certainty that the Word, who was in the beginning with the Father, and [John 1:3 (dia) "THROUGH HIM" is more corect] by whom all things were made, this is His Son..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
[FOOTNOTE 166]: "The Hebrew text has been corrupted in transmission: but it is plain that Irenæus interpreted the first two words (“In the beginning created”) as “In the beginning the Son.”..."
[FOOTNOTE 169]: "This is probably a reference to Prov. viii. 22: ὁ κύριος ἔκτισέ με ἀιχὴν τῶν ὁδῶν αὐτοῦ."
A reference to "THE LORD ( JEHOVAH ) CREATED ME..." at Proverbs 8:22.
To be finished later.
Irenaeus was no doubt paraphrasing his understanding of the phrase found at Colosians 1:15, Gk., ( πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως ) "First (one) to be born ( of ) all creation."
But he put a different slant on it.
He was to him the first one to be born "IN" all the creation.
Making him a definite part of "THE CREATION"
At present I do not have the Latin text for this section, but when I do I will post it here.
Elsewhere he speaks of the word as part of the creation and being created by the Lord ( JEHOVAH ) who is the Father and Supreme God of all to Irenaeus.
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 10. "...Now this God is glorified by His Word who is His Son continually, and by the Holy Spirit who is the Wisdom of the Father of all: and the powers of these, namely of the Word and Wisdom, which are called Cherubim and Seraphim, with unceasing voices glorify God; and EVERY CREATED THING that is in the heavens offers glory to God the Father of all. He by His Word has created the whole world, and in the world are the angels; and to all the world He has given laws wherein each several thing should abide, and according to that which is determined by God should not pass their bounds, each fulfilling his appointed task..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
Here "EVERY CREATED THING" gives glory to "God the Father of all".
"GOD" is also a seperate identity from the Word who is "HIS" Son in the first part of the verse.
NOTE: "...Now this God is glorified by His Word who is His Son..."
The Son "glorifie[s]" - "THIS GOD".
Philippians 2:11: “...And every tongue acclaim Jesus Christ as Master, ( to ) the glory of God the Father...” - THE AUTHENTIC NEW TESTAMENT by Hugh J. Schonfield, 1955.
Philippians 2:11: "...and Every Tounge confess That Jesus Christ is Lord, ( for ) the Glory of God the Father..." - Phil 2:11; The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson.
It is hard to escape that he is also part of the "creation" as shown in the previous quotation.
But it is certainly more concrete in the next quotation:
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 50. "...But in a very fitting manner, Christ says by David that the Father speaks with him. And He properly says other things of Himself by the prophets. Amoung other things by Isaiah he speaks thus: "And now thus says the Lord, WHO CREATED ME HIS SERVANT from the womb to gather Jacob and to gather Israel unto him and I will be glorified before the Lord and MY GOD shall be my strength. And He said: 'It will be a great thing for thee to be called MY SERVANT, to raise up and establish the race of Jacob and to return the dispertion of Israel. I have given thee for a light to the Gentiles that thou mayist be salvation unto the ends of the earth'. 51. For here first of all, it is evident that the Son of God was PRE-EXISTANT in that the Father speaks with him and in that before his birth he appeared to men. And that GOD HIMSELF CREATES HIM from the womb means that he must, he born (of) spirit of God and that he is Lord of all men and Saviour of believers whether Jews or others. For the people of the Jews is called Israel in the Hebrew language for their father Jacob was called Israel first, and 'nations' is a name for all men. And the Son calls himself the 'SERVANT' OF THE FATHER, BECAUSE OF HIS OBEDIENCE TO THE FATHER, for among men also every son is the servant of his father. 52. Thus the scriptures make it plain that the Son of God who was before all worlds was Christ who is with the Father is also very near man and intimate and united with him and king of all, BECAUSE THE FATHER HAS BROUGHT ALL IN OBEDIENCE TO HIM and that he is the Saviour of all who believe in him..." - (S. IRENAEUS - [Εἰς ἐπίδειξιν τοῦ ἀποστολικοῦ κηρύγματος] THE PROOF OF APOSTOLIC PREACHING WITH SEVEN FRAGMENTS ARMENIAN VERSION EDITED AND TRANSLATED BY HIS LORDSHIP THE BISHOP KARAPET TER MEKERTTSCHIAN AND THE REV. DR. S. G. WILSON WITH THE CO-OPERATION OF H. R. H. PRINCE MAXE OF SAXONY D. D. AND D. C. L.)
This version above is translated directly from the Armenian by an Armenian and therefore is more accurate and has more weight. Whereas the version below is taken from a Latin translation of the Armenian.
Notice the comments of one translator of the Latin version:
“...Latin version: Sancti Irenaei Demonstratio Apostolicae Praedicationis. … Ex armeno verit, prolegomenis illustravit, notis Iocupleiavit Simon Weber … (Freiburg I. Br. 1917). The version is, apart from one or two slips, accurate, but in the nature of things often obscure, ambiguious, or even positively misleading. Though this version is the best means available whereby one who does not know Armenian can form an idea of how the text expressed itself, Latin is not a suitable medium for such a verbal transposition. A Greek version on the same lines would have been more useful...” - (Page 116 Notes, ANCIENT CHRISTIAN WRITERS THE WORKS OF THE FATHERS IN TRANSLATION, St. Irenaeus “Proof Of The Apostolic Preaching” Translated By Joseph P. Smith 1952)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 50. "...So then right fitly Christ says through David that He converses with the Father; and right worthily does He say the other things concerning Himself through the prophets; as in other instances, so also after this manner by Isaiah: [Latin text: "Et hodie ita dicit Dominus, qui plasmavit me servum suum ab utero"] And now thus saith the Lord, who FORMED ME AS HIS SERVANT from the womb, to gather Jacob and to gather Israel unto him: and I shall be glorified before THE LORD, [Latin text: "et Deus meus"] AND MY GOD shall be a strength unto me. And he said; A great thing shall it be to thee to be called MY SERVANT, to stablish and confirm the tribe of Jacob, and to turn again the dispersion of Israel: and I have set thee for a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldst be for salvation unto the end of the earth. 51. Here, first of all, is seen that the Son of God pre-existed, from the fact that the Father spake with Him, and before He was born revealed Him to men: and, next, that He must needs be born a man among men; and that THE SAME GOD FORMS HIM FROM THE WOMB, that is, that ( of ) the Spirit of God He should be born; and that He is Lord of all men, and Saviour of them that believe on Him, both Jews and others. For the people of the Jews is called Israel in the Hebrew language, from Jacob their father, who was the first to be called Israel: and Gentiles He calls the whole of mankind. And that the Son of the Father CALLS HIMSELF SERVANT (THIS IS) ON ACCOUNT OF HIS SUBJECTION TO THE FATHER: for among men also every son is the servant of his father. 52. That Christ, then, being Son of God before all the world, is with the Father; and being with the Father is also nigh and close and joined unto mankind; and is King of all, because THE FATHER HAS SUBJECTED ALL THINGS UNTO HIM; and Saviour of them that believe on Him----such things do the Scriptures declare..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
Irenaeus says directly "GOD HIMSELF CREATES HIM".
Yes Jesus is "CREATED" or "FORMED" by the Lord ( JEHOVAH ).
How can we say that Ireaneaus used "JEHOVAH"?
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): "...uttered the word IAO (JEHOVAH); from which THE HOLY NAME, JEHOVAH, they say, had its origin..." — (Against Heresies, Book 1, chapter 4:1; A Library of Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church anterior to the division of east and west translated by Members of the English Church; The Five Books of S. Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons translated by the Rev. John Keble, M. A. 1872)
Also others from near and in this time period knew of and mentioned the divine name:
JUSTIN MARTYR (c 160 C.E.): “...And your most renowned historian Diodorus, who employed thirty whole years in epitomizing the libraries, and who, as he himself wrote, travelled over both Asia and Europe for the sake of great accuracy, and thus became an eye-witness of very many things, wrote forty entire books of his own history. And he in the first book, having said that he had learned from the Egyptian priests that Moses was an ancient lawgiver, and even the first, wrote of him in these very words: “For subsequent to the ancient manner of living in Egypt which gods and heroes are fabled to have regulated, they say that Moses first persuaded the people to use written laws, and to live by them; and he is recorded to have been a man both great of soul and of great faculty in social matters.” Then, having proceeded a little further, and wishing to mention the ancient lawgivers, he mentions Moses first. For he spoke in these words: “Among the Jews they say that Moses ascribed his laws to THAT GOD WHO IS CALLED JEHOVAH, whether because they judged it a marvellous and quite divine conception which promised to benefit a multitude of men..." - (Justins Horatory Address to the Greeks Chapter 9. ANF R&D.)
CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA ( - 220 c.e.): “That mystic name which is called the Tetragrammaton, by which alone they who had access to the Holy of Holies were protected, is pronounced JEHOVAH, which means, “Who is, and who shall be.”...” - (Fragments) Translated by William Wilson, Collection XI, Fragment 9
http://www.logoslibrary.org/clement/fragments/1109.html
CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (153-217): “...That mystic name which is called the Tetragrammaton, by which alone they who had access to the Holy of Holies were protected, is pronounced JEHOVAH (Iehovah), which means, Who is, and who shall be..." - NICETAS, Bishop of Heraclea, Quoting CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA, From The Catena On The Pentateuch, Published In Latin By Francis Zephyrus, P 146
Also in the same text just a few words later the Son of God himself calls his Father "MY GOD" Ltn., (Deus meus).
And a little further down it speaks of "THAT SAME GOD" forming or creating him.
Verification of his being created is found elsewhere in Irenaeus:
LATIN TEXT: 20, 3. "...Et quoniam Verbum, hoe est Filius, semper cum Patre erat, per multa demonstravimus. Quoniam autem et Sapientia, quae est Spiritus, erat apud eum ante omnem constitutionem, per Salomonem ait : Deus sapientia fundauit terram, parauit autem caetum prudentia; sensu ejus abyssi eruperunt, nubes autem manaueruni rosa. Et rursus : DOMINUS CREAVIL ME prinicipium uiarum suarum in opera sua, ante saecula fundauit me, in initio anlequam terram facerel, priusquam abyssos constitueret, priusquam procederent fontes aquarum, antequam monles confirmarentur: ante omnes autem colles genuit meb. Et iterum : Cum pararel caetum, eram cum illo, el cum fcrmos faceret fontes abyssi, quando fortia faciebat fundamenta terrae, eram apud cum aptans. Ego eram cui adgaudebat, quotidie autem laetabar ante faciem ejus in omni tempore, cum laelarelur orbe perfecto et jucundabatur in filiis hominume..." — (Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 20:3.)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 3. "...I have also largely demonstrated, that the Word, namely the Son, was always with the Father; and that Wisdom also, which is the Spirit, was present with Him, anterior to all creation, He declares by Solomon: “God by Wisdom founded the earth, and by understanding hath He established the heaven. By His knowledge the depths burst forth, and the clouds dropped down the dew.” And again: [Latin: Dominus creavil me ] “THE LORD CREATED ME the beginning of His ways in His work: He set me up from everlasting, in the beginning, before He made the earth, before He established the depths, and before the fountains of waters gushed forth; before the mountains were made strong, and before all the hills, He brought me forth.” And again: “When He prepared the heaven, I was with Him, and when He established the fountains of the deep; when He made the foundations of the earth strong, I was with Him preparing [them]. I was He in whom He rejoiced, and throughout all time I was daily glad before His face, when He rejoiced at the completion of the world, and was delighted in the sons of men.” 4. There is therefore one God, who by the Word and Wisdom created and arranged all things..." — (Against Heresies, Book 4, chapter 20:3,4. ANF R&D)
Wikipedia: “JEHOVAH”: Latin and English transcriptions similar to “Jehovah”: Footnote 114: “...Gesenius rendered Proverbs 8:22 in Latin as: "JEHOVA CREAVIT ME ab initio creationis". (Samuel Lee, A lexicon, Hebrew, Chaldee, and English (1840) p. 143)...”
There are contridictory notions in this section. Whenever I come acfcross this my suspicion is always aroused of tampering with the text or miss-translation.
[Will finish examining this later]
It is also confirmed by his words here:
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): "...spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit; but we, inasmuch as we are inferior to, and LATER IN EXISTENCE THAN THE WORD OF GOD and His Spirit, are on that very account destitute of the knowledge of His mysteries..." — (Against Heresies, Book 2, chapter 28; ANF R&D)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): "...If any one, therefore, says to us, “How then was THE SON PRODUCED BY THE FATHER?” we reply to him, that no man understands THAT PRODUCTION, OR GENERATION, or calling, or revelation, or by whatever name one may describe His GENERATION, which is in fact altogether indescribable. Neither Valentinus, nor Marcion, nor Saturninus, nor Basilides, nor angels, nor archangels, nor principalities, nor powers , but the Father only who BEGAT, and the Son who WAS BEGOTTEN. ... what all understand to the ONLY-BEGOTTEN Word of God; and while they style Him unspeakable and unnameable, they nevertheless set forth THE PRODUCTION AND FORMATION OF HIS FIRST GENERATION, as if they themselves had assisted AT HIS BIRTH, thus assimilating Him to the word of mankind formed by emissions..." — (Against Heresies, Book 2, chapter 28:6; ANF R&D)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 70. "...For he who bore all these has a GENERATION which cannot be told, for his GENERATION is (as) his (ORIGIN) namely his Father indescribable and unspeakable. But know that he who endured such sufferings had such an (ORIGIN) and do not dispise him on account of his sufferings he endured for you, for a purpose, but fear him for his (ORIGIN)..." - (S. IRENAEUS - [Εἰς ἐπίδειξιν τοῦ ἀποστολικοῦ κηρύγματος] THE PROOF OF APOSTOLIC PREACHING WITH SEVEN FRAGMENTS ARMENIAN VERSION EDITED AND TRANSLATED BY HIS LORDSHIP THE BISHOP KARAPET TER MEKERTTSCHIAN AND THE REV. DR. S. G. WILSON WITH THE CO-OPERATION OF H. R. H. PRINCE MAXE OF SAXONY D. D. AND D. C. L.)
He is "LATER IN EXISTENCE" meaning he wasn't always in existence. And just as we came into existence or were created so was the Word.
He was "PRODUCED BY THE FATHER".
He was a "PRODUCTION".
He had "FIRST" and no doubt second generation when he came into existence John 1:14 as a man.
He had an "ORIGIN".
He was "GENERATED".
When did all this occur?
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 30. "...Hither were the prophets sent by God through the Holy Spirit; and they instructed the people and turned them to the God of their fathers, the Almighty; and they became heralds of the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God, declaring that from the posterity of David His flesh should blossom forth; that after the flesh He might be the son of David, who was the son of Abraham by a long succession; but according to the spirit Son of God, PRE-EXISTING with the Father, BEGOTTEN BEFORE ALL THE CREATION OF THE WORLD, and at the end of the times appearing to all the world as man, the Word of God gathering up in Himself all things that are in heaven and that are on earth..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
IRENAEUS (c. 130-200 C.E.): 43. "...So then we must believe God in all things, for in all things God is true. Now that there was a Son of God, and that He existed not only before He appeared in the world, but also BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE, Moses, who was the first that prophesied, says in Hebrew: Baresith bara Elowin basan benuam samenthares. And this, translated into our language, is: "The Son in the beginning: God established then the heaven and the earth." [166] This Jeremiah the prophet also testified, saying thus: Before the morning-star I BEGAT THEE: and before the sun (is) thy name; and that is, BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD; for together with the world the stars were made. And again the same says: Blessed is he who was, before he became man: Because, for God, the Son was (as) the beginning BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD; [SEE FOOTNOTE 169] but for us (He was) then, when He appeared; and before that He was not for us, who knew Him not. Wherefore also His disciple John, in teaching us who is the Son of God, who was with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE, and that all the things that were made were made [John 1:3 (dia) "THROUGH HIM" is more corect] by Him, says thus: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made [John 1:3 (dia) "THROUGH HIM" is more corect] by Him, and without Him was not anything made: showing with certainty that the Word, who was in the beginning with the Father, and [John 1:3 (dia) "THROUGH HIM" is more corect] by whom all things were made, this is His Son..." - (IRENAEUS THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING. [ΕἸΣ ἘΠΊΔΕΙΞΙΝ ΤΟΥ͂ ἈΠΟΣΤΟΛΙΚΟΥ͂ ΚΗΡΎΓΜΑΤΟΣ] TRANSLATED FROM THE ARMENIAN WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY J. ARMITAGE ROBINSON, 1920.)
[FOOTNOTE 166]: "The Hebrew text has been corrupted in transmission: but it is plain that Irenæus interpreted the first two words (“In the beginning created”) as “In the beginning the Son.”..."
[FOOTNOTE 169]: "This is probably a reference to Prov. viii. 22: ὁ κύριος ἔκτισέ με ἀιχὴν τῶν ὁδῶν αὐτοῦ."
A reference to "THE LORD ( JEHOVAH ) CREATED ME..." at Proverbs 8:22.
To be finished later.
